Friday, November 02, 2007
Chulrua
As pointed out by alert reader Elizabeth, some fine Irish music is in town Saturday night, provided by Chulrua. The band ("red back" in Irish) is made up of accordion legend Paddy O'Brien, guitarist and vocalist Pat Egan, and for this show, fiddler Dale Russ sitting in for Patrick Ourceau. The show is a production of the Missouri Valley Folklife Society and is being held, as are most MVFS shows, at the Community Christian Church, 4601 Main St. here in town. Tickets are $20.00 general admission; $17.00 MVFS and Crosscurrents members and $5.00 for students.
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23 comments:
$20? That's a great deal!
When will MVFS learn that they need to move their Irish music shows, pub music, out of the church and put it in a proper setting where a man can enjoy a pint? You add drink sales into your revenues and you could charge a lot less than $20 a pop.
I don't agree. MVFS is putting on a concert, not a gig. The venues they choose are made for listening unlike a pub setting. Traditional Irish music (esp. the quality of acts MVFS bring in) meed to be in a quieter, more intimate setting.
Not everyone wants to be in a smoky pub that is loud where you can’t hear the music, because that’s what this about, the music! And not all Irish music is pub music. There are Irish musicians who won’t play in pubs and, believe it or not, there are Irish musicians who don’t partake in the drink. I love a good pint as much as the next guy, but not everything Irish is always about the drink. And Pub’s are not always family friendly places. If you want a pint, come to the show and then come to the house party where you can get a pint and enjoy and take part in a wonderful session with the musicians. It’s a shame to miss such good music just because you need a pint. Can’t you get the pint any time?
That's shite. Irish trad was never "concert" music. It's pub music and I've been in plenty of pubs that can be plenty quiet and intimate when the music calls for it.
Just go. Stop off at O'Dowd's on your way if you like. It's just a couple blocks away.
First, no one said it was concert music, it was said that it's not all pub music. And secondly, I've played in pubs for over 10 years and it's very, very rare to get a crowd of pub gathers to stop and listen intently. Thirdly, Cafe & as well as house concerts do a fantastic job of presenting live Irish music without the pint! And last, it's all a matter of opinion so long as you are enjoying yourself!
Pubs are only one of many venues for Irish traditional music. Music was regularly played in houses and churches for weddings and parties and celebrations, also outdoors at crossroads, and sometimes at pubs. Now, of course, we have that lovely Irish Fest to go to. Although Irish music in the US happens quite a lot in pubs, pubs are definitely not required. Pub sessions as we think of them today didn't come around until the 1940s (Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Ireland). In fact in many places, the best sessions still happen in private houses, which is why the great fiddler Charlie Lennon (not John) wrote a tune called "Round the house and mind the dresser", not "Round the pub and mind the bum of the bloke at the bar"...
I'm not saying that you can't get fab music from Eddie and the lads at O'Dowd's on Wednesday nights and a pint of the best to boot, but MVFS is providing an incredible service to the community in bringing in bands to a venue in which the MUSIC is the focus, not the pints or the cuties at the next table (or on stage in the lads' case!). In fact, should you ever get to hear Mr. Delahunt sing unamped and an intimate setting, you'll be in for a rare auld treat as you'll be able to hear the nuances of his singing and playing that you can't hear over the drunk arse next to you screaming the chorus to Finnegan's Wake. It's true that Irish trad music didn't originate on stages, but short of having a great band like Chulrua in your living room, the MVFS concert is a damned fine opportunity to support real Irish music in Kansas City.
I agree with jkellyd and Danny. Stop yer whinging, go to O'Dowd's for a starter, then to the concert, and afterwards to the afterparty for a finisher (or two)...
Note: completely unaffiliated with Charlie Lennon, KCIF, Eddie, the lads, O'Dowd's, Finnegan, Chulrua, or MVFS.
Ah, the magic of the internet. Sincerely mistaken attempts to educate the idiots, this time with the not so faint whiff of alcoholism in the background.
I have played music in hundreds of pubs in the US and Ireland. They treat traditional music with respect in Queally's, which is in Miltown Malbay Clare. That's the only one.
Go to the Chulrua show. Get topped up before you leave. Sneak a hip flask to take the edge off the DTs. Take a cab home. Maybe not a sacred 'pint' but you'll be around great music and you'll even be able to hear it.
Irish music, like any music, can be played in a variety of settings. But for a group like Chulrua who have a great deal of subtlety in their arrangements, a listening "concert" setting is much better.
That's why an awful lot of folks don't like playing in pubs, 'cause it doesn't tend to be a rewarding experience. Go see Chulrua. You can drink before or after.
If we were all in rural Ireland I would have to agree with Paddy. Pubs in Ireland have a clientele who have an often very deep respect for the music. I have been in several where you could hear a pin drop between tunes and very rarely have I heard applause between tunes like here in the States. There, the music is an organic part of an evening in the pub, not some floor show for your entertainment.
(Guests in smaller pubs are even occasionally called on to offer up a song or two. There it's culture and it's beautiful. Here, it's Karaoke and it's a trainwreck.)
But since we are in America, where Yanks do not know how to behave in a proper pub with music (treating it instead like some roadhouse with a jukebox), I have to admit this music is much more enjoyable in a "concert" setting where audiences are pretty much forced to behave themselves.
So make your plans to have your pint(s) after the show (not before, please God) and maybe you'll hear parts of the tunes you've never noticed (or been able to hear) before.
No shite.
P.S. By the way, these shows are about the music. Not the money. Just ask any MVFS member and they'll tell you the same thing.
Concerts offer a huge quality gain over the noisy, acoustically challenged, usually smoky pub. I love playing in pubs. They're sometimes very intimate.
That said, the subtleties of my arrangements are lost in the pub. I'm amazed, when I listen to recordings from the board of my show, that I even played some of the parts that I couldn't hear myself do. The acoustics and noise kill that in a pub.
Currently, I'm still nursing my sinuses, after visits to the doctor, rounds of antibiotics, new allergy med scripts, and barely making through last weekend's shows. I'm enjoying this lovely cascading domino row of sinus and throat issues, all beginning immediately after my singing in a smoky bar two weeks ago.
Right about now, I'd kill for a series of concerts in neo-universalist churches that annoyed their superstar architects.
Unfortunately when it's all said and done it still seems like a lot of money for one act with or without the "refreshments".
Unfortunately when it's all said and done it still seems like a lot of money for one act with or without the "refreshments".
OK OK OK,,,, I think we have established that Irish music (and any other kind of folk music) can be played in all kinds of settings. GIVEN that I do believe that it is important to match the venue with the anticipated size of the audience, etc. AND that there is a need to develop venues in KC that fall in between the full concert setting and house concerts outside of the pub. PUBs are great but a completely different listening environment. SO... in many places restaurants and pubs will have an upstairs ballroom or banquet room that can serve as a small concert setting -- patrons drink before after and during the breaks down in the bar and then go upstairs for the performance. THIS WORKS GREAT! The Irish Culture society in Chicago has that format, The Birdhouse concert series in Manhattan KS does something similar, Godfrey Daniells in Bethlehem PA is a "listening room" and the ARK in Ann Arbor Michigan all work off of that basic model. SO... yes, it would be good to develop other places for Traditional music to be heard in town, particularly when the anticipated sales for the event is between 60 and 150. Art Galleries, Restaurants with banquet rooms, Performance Art spaces, even Barns and Banquet halls all can work for these kind of events.
Just my two cents.
Pete, you pretty much nailed it.
To imagine KC is Ireland is a mistake.
To imagine a Midwest Bar is an Irish Pub is a mistake.
To imagine that the musical tastes of Irish natives and a KC bar crowd are the same would be a mistake.
Playing Irish music in the Mid West is its own ball game - ask any Irish musician visiting the Midwest – and ask the ones who play here regularly.
Celtic Musicians who regularly play bars here adopt a different skill set/style of playing than they would in a concert/house setting. This is to appease audiences who come once or twice a year to be “Irish” and successively demand the five or so predictable glass pounding songs – “Finnegan’s Wake” and the like. They get their fix, and then they’re gone for another year. It’s a type of Vaudeville to them.
They are seeking their own Image of Ireland – not the real thing. The real thing bores them – they believe it lacks excitement. That’s probably why hybrids like Irish/Rock were born – to get people excited. It takes small chewable portions of hardcore/legitimate material and makes it easier to swallow for certain audiences.
This is partly why the concert setting of Irish music is more of an American invention – it caters to a different audience. I do understand that separating the music from the culture is a mistake; however, you’d be hard pushed to find Irish culture in a KC bar.
That church on the Plaza is terrible sterile for an Irish gig. You won't catch me there for sure.
Good lord... is it just the time of year for inane discussions or something? We've got the exact same discussion going on down here in Arkansas at the moment. New Irish Pub called "Cregeen's" just opened and it's really just another American Green Sports Bar but a local "Trad" forum is just all a-twitter about "Is it or isn't it an Irish Pub and is it or isn't a place to play TRAD". Commenters run the gamut from people who go to these American Willy Weeks once a year and come back thinking they are experts at Irish music to bluegrass players who also consider themselves Irish music experts because they know how to play "Red Haired Boy". Fer cryin' out loud. Does any other genre of music have to suffer through this kind of crap? Why no comments about the recent Elders concert in the chapel. Was THAT the right "venue" for them? Was that a "concert" or a "gig"? That was a lot more than 20 bucks. Were they serving beer in the chapel? Was it the place THEY should have been playing? It always amazes me how one idiot these days can light up a whole thread on a BLOG or a FORUM with just one stupid comment. If you like the music... seek it out. If you don't, stay home. Jaysus.
I like my Chulruas with sour cream and guacamole.......
I think this is a great discussion, but folks, let's keep the name calling out it. Having an opinion different than yours doesn't necessarly make someone an idiot and just because someone would like a chance to have a drink while listening to music doesn't make them a hopeless alcoholic. Maybe I'm reading this all wrong, but I think the original point that was being made was that changing venues might open up additional revenue streams to MVFS, which might make the ticket price lower which might increase attendance. As somebody who's been in this business for a long time, I see nothing wrong with any of those points.
By the way, I was in Arkansas visiting my sister. How was the show?
You are right, Dan. Sorry. This is a public forum and you have to expect anything. I guess I am just a little defensive of Missouri Valley Folklife Society. I KNOW how hard those folks work to bring the good people of Kansas City any Irish Traditional Music at all and it just irks me when someone comes at them with "When will they learn" like THEY are the "idiots" or something. If whoever posted that comment would JOIN this group or even attend some of the meetings then that would surely be more helpful then being one of these "Why don't they just do what I want" lurkers. If you even just read their message threads you will see how hard these folks work at planning things and are constantly evaluating themselves to see if they can serve the KC area better. Want something to change at MVFS? JOIN THE GROUP. HELP THEM OUT.
Don't just be a "lurker".
The Chulrua concert was splendid, exceeding the expectations of everyone expecting a top-shelf evening.
It was gratifying to see and visit with the good number of folks who either purchased their season's flex pass or re-upped their membership on the spot.
I was struck not only by the shared company of people with a love of real music, but by the dedication of those who brought their young kids or who hired a babysitter and even those who came with a bad head cold.
Some things in life DO speak louder than words.
Dear Uncle Danny,
You are right, of course. I was out of order, and took the whole reductio ad absurdum thing too far. My apologies to those of my fellow anonymites that I slandered. I assure you I'm much more reasonable in real life.
RE: $20 is too much!
It seems a lot to you (and me too) but trying going to The Sprint Center, or The Chiefs, or any other overhyped event in town. Or see how much change you get at the movies after popcorn and sodas. I'd rather go to hear Chulrua than to see Garth Brooks.
RE: Bar gigs help subsidise the door.
Were this true, they would pay better than they generally do. Here's some homework: Livable income for 3 musicians, touring costs (travel, food, lodging), open dates, agents fees, mailing costs. It generally works out more than a typical bar gig pays. Which is why you tend to see many more individuals tour bars than bands.
RE:What about a listening room type bar?
Great idea. Give some specific examples of where the Chulrua concert could have been held and heard. I'm fairly sure the MVFS folks would be open to reasonable suggestions for central locations.
contritely
Al
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